Brooklyn's They Might Be Giants have built a career on writing music frequently described as eccentric, quirky and unusual. At this point, however, perhaps their most unusual quality is their remarkable durability -- 25 years together and still going strong. The two Johns (Linnell and Flansburgh) have extended their creative range from writing and recording albums (four million plus sold), to collaborating with artists as diverse as Dave Eggers and Marcel Dzama, writing music for film and television (Malcolm in the Middle, The Simpsons) and even starred as subjects of a documentary film based on them and their career (Gigantic: A Tale of Two Johns) in the process.
2007 saw the release of their latest album, The Else, which includes tracks produced by legendary L.A. based producers The Dust Brothers. SuicideGirls caught up with one half of the duo, John Flansburgh, to chat about the new album, life on the road, tasty baked goods, and other accoutrements of the rock-and-roll lifestyle.
Hi!
Hey hey hey!
So, you obviously tour a ton, and recently you collaborated with ["Daily Show" Correspondent and Comedian] John Hodgman for a collection of songs/video clips about the various venues you've played on tour. Do you think is it just a natural by-product of the touring musician's lifestyle to write about locations you visit, or is there something else about places/spaces that inspires you?
Theres something about touring that is so earthbound its almost toxic. But the "venue songs" idea really came out of the just staring at an itinerary of shows that we had almost done entirely before; we were going back to all these clubs we had played, some of them a dozen times. So it was like, how are we going to keep this interesting for ourselves? I guess the truth is, we care a lot about the theater of our performance and putting on a good show.
Speaking of touring, I heard a story once about John Linnell actually passing out on stage in Florida
Yeah!
It all sounded very dramatic. Are there other weird or scary moments that have happened like that? I dont know, like, animal interference or illness or danger, something like that?
Well, I guess were closing in on something like 2,000 shows at this point. Im sure theres somebody at the TMBG fan-run Wikipedia who could give us a specific count. Were somewhere in the past 1,500 closing in on 2,000. Almost everything happens. Weve had a lot of fainting and seizures and weird audience things that just make you feel bad But, so the thing that happened with Linnell, basically, it was a very small club with a very low ceiling, in the basement. And Florida was really hot, already it was like an oxygen free environment. We did a couple of songs and Linnell started acting like kind of strange he was not communicating. We did one song and he kind of just sat down on stage, and I thought, Wow, Johns like morphing into Michael Stipe as we perform and then he just said, I gotta lie down.
He said that out loud? Or did he just kind of stretch out?
He just went in the dressing room and lay on the floor but basically he was having heat stroke. It was easily 100 and something degrees. Especially ten years ago there were like these old fashioned lighting rigs made out of these things called "par cans" which are like big old, tin lights that are essentially the heating lights at the KFC -- they throw out a lot of extra heat. We were just getting cooked. So basically he went back stage and proceeded to pass out, and our show isnt really structured in a way that one of us can like take over! As much as one of us might take a lead on a song, its all kind of intertwined. The thing that really struck me as so odd was I had the horrible, undignified task of telling the audience the show was over, and after many years of hearing the roars of applause and approval, all of the sudden they all started BOOING me!
Whoa, what?!
Well they had all come out to see a show!
I know, but did they know that he was ill or were they just like, BOOOOOO?
I think it was that they had seen with their eyes that he was alive and within the room and that was enough for people not to understand why the show wasnt going on. And who knows, maybe they thought we were on drugs. You know, people jump to immediate, crazy conclusions. Weve been accused of being completely high every third day of our lives by our fans, so who knows what they were thinking. I have to say the sensation of being booedman, man. It felt bad!
[Laughs] Yeah! It doesnt happen that much, I feel like. I feel like it's very rare a show where thats how the audience reacts. Its very old school, booing...
Yeah, well its very rare that youd tell an audience that the show is over and they have to leave and theres no refund or whatever! The other thing that was CRAZY, that we only figured out a month later, is that it was a non-ticketed event for half the people -- like half the people just walked up and got into the room -- so when we left the stage, the promoter didnt refund peoples money.
Ohhh.
They were just standing at the door like, [sleazy voice] Dont worry baby, They Might be Giants is coming back for a free show in a couple of monthsand he was completely bullshitting! And so we take John to the hospital, the promoter tells the tour manager, Well, were not going to pay you and the promoter took all the money! He made more than twice as much as he normally would -- he took all the money from the night, and never refunded anybodys money.
Ok, well thats pretty evil.
Yeah, speaking of drugs and bullshit moves it was total full on coke-dealer, sleaze-bag thing to do. It was like, Wow. That guys a dick! [Laughs]
I wanted to also ask you about something, I know theres a lot of talk about this sort of forever young quality of your audiences.
Ah yes, the Dorian Gray aspect...
Yeah, I was wondering how do you guys achieve that? Like, is that Black Magic, Talismans... how do you I mean, all of those things are illegal.
[Laughs] Well, its probably a couple things. I think a brutal assessment of what we do is that were not really wrapped up in a lot of regular adolescent stuff, like its not about finding your sexual identity. We steer clear of a lot of the normal trappings of rock music, and we have our own personal sensibility. A lot of people find it left of center, and kind of kooky and I think for a lot of people -- people who are really feeling rejected by the world for whatever reason -- I think they identify with a lot of the stuff were doing. So it kind of has this cultural lighthouse aspect to it. Weve always had a college-age audience. To be perfectly honest, Im grateful for it, just because theres so much real energy. Theyre actually so committed to the music. We have opened for a couple of big artists who are slightly older than us and their audience is exactly the same age as they are, which is much more typical. Audiences tend to age with the performer and, I have to sayaudiences as old as me are incredibly boring. [Laughs] Its just like, I like playing for people who are standing up, people who are dancing around and screaming and hooting and hollering -- its just more interesting.
Right, right. Lets say on a scale of one to ten, how tired then would you say you are of adjectives like quirky and eccentric when used to talk about your music? Whats your relationship with it?
Well, what is that thing called? I know theres more than one device like this, but like The 12 Stages of Mourning?
Oh, like the "12 Stages of Grief" or something?
Yeah, I feel like Im probably on like the 12th stage. Im pretty much reconciled to it. The adolescent part of me, the part of me that plays the electric guitar and screams at the top of my lungs every nightI find it grating because it short circuits whatever mystery there might be about what we do. Were essentially not a comedic act so, to put a comedic label across it, its like a framing device or a filter that just dictates how somebody whos a stranger to it understands it. I think it just undermines whatever effect we could have on that person. Were trying to figure out a way to do something thats compelling and different for the person whos just discovering what we do. Any kind of label puts somebody in a box. Heavy Metal bands deal with it all the time, any band gets described in some weird shorthand. I guess getting back to the petty version of me, I feel like what were doing is kind of sophisticated. Theres a lot of pose-y bullshit that were just way past. We started this band as adults, were not particularly interested in over the top stuff. I think even by regular rock standards, we keep it on the real stuff most of the time. Were doing stuff for our permanent record, if we just wanted to get our goofball on, itd be a really different kind of act.
Yeah. So you guys clearly draw lyrical inspiration from all over the map and on The Else you have a song, "The Mesopotamians", which is about an invented band. This isnt the first time youve sung about other bandstheres "Were the Replacements" and "XTC Vs. Adam Ant". As a listener theres this sort of meta-thrill in hearing one band sing about another one, as artists, what brings you back to that? Is it just talking shop or is there something else, something particularly enjoyable, about it?
Oh, thats a really interesting question, and the meta concept I think is the key ingredient. Its more than just talking shop. You know, writing songs is such a strange thing. I guess, all those songs function on different levels, but the idea that youre writing a song about a song is kind of exciting, or youre a band singing about another band. I think in a way it kind of moves the fourth wall. As a listener, youre kind of looking in a kaleidoscope.
Right.
Its all kind of recognizable stuff, its all part of the package of listening to popular music, but somehow youre aware that the band is aware that theres something happening. All of those songs are kind of coming from different places, I mean "Were The Replacements" really is about being a band on a club tour. We would play at a club Saturday night exactly one day after The Replacements played and exactly two days before Husker Du played. We were booked by the same guy who booked all the alternative bands, and we all played in all the same clubs, and it was just like everyone was living the same life like one day later. And in a lot of cases, playing for almost the exact same audience! So you know, you go play in some far-flung town, youre playing in Lincoln, Nebraska or something you cant help but notice the empty t-shirt boxes shipped to the same band that the empty t-shirt boxes from like three nights before were for.
So The Replacements as the band and also just replacements
Exactly, that was exactly the point, that youre in this kind of parallel world. Whereas "XTC Vs. Adam Ant", thats almost a High Fidelity kind of song.
Yeah, I think that ones kind of fun for the listener because its the imagining, Oh, Im a fan of this band and theyre also fan ... Imagining a kind of relationship that one band would have to another one.
Yeah, the secret I have to reveal about the "XTC Vs. Adam Ant" song though is I think everybody thinks or makes the leap that were huge XTC fans and not Adam Ant fans, but I have to tell youI am a huge Adam Ant fan! More specifically, I am a fan of The Ants! They became Bow Wow Wow, after they left Adam and theyre an incredibly propulsive, original rhythm section and guitar player! Theyre great musicians. Really exciting and really tribal. Theres not a lot of bands that bring their own flavor to stuff. Theres always people who are like showmen in rock, and as Rolling Stone gets a larger and larger market share in writing the boring History of Rock Music, its all just like biography and artistic integrity, blah blah blahso there is something to be said for the Little Richards of the world, you know? Rock music is about mania, and should be, and so, I like the maniacs.
My personal favorite They Might Be Giants lyric ever is in "S-E-X-X-Y".
Oh, thank you so much!
Well, I really want to kind of pick your brain about it, its, standing on the bed, cookie in one hand, wig on her head. And its my favorite because the first time I heard it my stomach growled audibly when I heard the word cookie through my headphones.
[Laughs] You mean you thought it was like a special reference?
[Laughs] No, no! I was actually hoping you would just humor me and tell me like, what kind of cookie do you imagine when you sing it? Like, I see it as this hearty, multi-grain oatmeal raisin cookie. I dont know, maybe its organic
[Both laugh]
I was curious though really, do you see lyrics that explicitly visual? What kind of cookie is it?
[Laughs] Thats a funny idea. For me? You know also, I never thought about the fact that the cookie lyric could be taken as an, um, anatomical reference?
[Laughs] Oh! Right, right..
I actually was thinking in that lyric about, um, you know eating in bed! Decadent, you know, as the purest expression of good time/getting it onthat youd just be eating a cookie. Whether its like Chips Ahoy or like--
Biscotti
Yeah, or something else..
I guess I was also a little bit nervous about asking about that because I thought maybe youd be like, [sarcastic tone] Cookie? Thats a drug reference.
[Laughs] No, no, its about actually eating a cookie. Its single entendre. In a lot of cases I feel like even when were trying to write things as directly as possible they end up sounding like theyre filled with coded messages. Even the title of that song ["S-E-X-X-Y"] if we had thought about it or worked on it longer or thought about it in a smarter why the song would actually be called "S-E-X-X-X-Y"! Because the just "S-E-X-X-Y" makes people wonder if its like an extra chromosome. Which again is something that really didnt cross my mind until the song, like, is this about some kind of transgendered German swimming team thing? Which is fine, it totally fits the spirit of the song in a way but its so much more specific than the intention. Thats the terrain of writing lyrics -- theyre open ended whether you like it or not.
You talked a little bit about the fact that you guys have been together for 25 years at this point, and you worked with [L.A. Based Producers] the Dust Brothers on The Else. Theyve been together for a long time as well, amongst themselves. In what ways to you think you benefit, or how do you, from working with another team that has such a solid, longstanding relationship with each other?
Well, I guess. For us, I think the biggest benefit for us working with the Dust Brothers is that we were slightly scared of them! And it made us work harder.
Were they scared of you, do you think? Or was it just one-way fear.
Naw, you know, those guys are like super successful. Theyve got a lot going on a professional leveland, um, you knowtheyre rich! Theyre really nice and really generous and smart and they just do cool stuff and thats their scene. I think for me and John just the idea that we were working with them really made us kind of stand up a little bit straighter with everything on the record. We knew that the songs that we did that werent going to be Dust Brothers productions were going to be alongside Dust Brothers productions so we just knew we had to really put our best foot forward.
Step up your game
Yes, yes, exactly step up our game, I dont know many of those sports metaphors.
Thats the only one I know, I might use it again later.
[Laughs] Oh, ok. Well, Im gonna use it. It was definitely that. It was a general challenge to be working with name producers. We knew that the stuff we were going to be doing with them was kind of exceptional and so it was a way to kind of get our mojo going. Theyre very smart guys. Music is made a lot of different ways these days, and there are not a lot of people who work as electronically as us, or as acoustically as us. In general when you hook up with producers, in some sense theyre either editors or polishers, or a combination of both, but they tend not to be that big a collaborative aspect to it, and the thing about the Dust Brothers is theyre more like Hip Hop producers in that they feel like their role is really providing the track. There was kind of an odd overlap for us because we have a pretty slammin band and we do pretty complete demos with all sorts of fragile, indefensible electronic do-dads attached, and so a lot of what would be their work is already being done. But we kind of approached it just trying to collaborate every which way. We did tracks where they really provided the rhythms, we did tracks where we had essentially recorded the songs and they were remixing it and re-structuring it, but very radically. [The song] "Take Out The Trash" is a good example of that. The actual form of that song was entirely made over by them after it had kind of existed as a song. So, theyre very smart guys and very open ended with their approach. Which is rare, because most of these guys only know how to do one thing.
Youve collaborated with lots of people, and in that situation it was a very good collaboration, youve done work with other musicians and we talked about John Hodgman and comedians and visual artists as well, and writers... Is there any art form that you would like to kind of explore that you havent? I mean is there like a They Might Be Giants dance collaboration in the future?
[Laughs] Yeah. Well, theres a kind of spontaneous thing that John and I do on stage that Id like to harness for some kind of online-type project. You know, we kick around these ideas, and when I see thingswere in Atlanta right now and were going to hook up with the Homestar Runner guys probably in a couple of hours and so I guess its just on my mind, but---theres something about the combination of improvised ideas combined with the structure of an animation or the structure of something else that legitimizes it? I dont know if you ever saw the "Home Movies"? The television show "Home Movies"?
No, I havent, Im sorry.
I guess it was on Adult Swim for a while, I dont think it was a huge ratings show but there was something about the way it was put together that I thought was really interesting. I guess part of it is that a lot of our unreliable narrator tendencies get amplified through stuff like that and someday, um, ersomeday Id like to be on the Internet.
[Both laugh]
Ok! Well, on that note, thank you so much!
[Laughs] Thank you!